Gaming Signal: What do you mean they don't ask questions?

What do you mean they don't ask questions?

The Sony PS3 BlueRay DRM post here has been going strong with some great discussion (go on and check it out - I can wait...), but the originating statements implied that Sony was doing yet more nefarious things to prevent consumers from reselling games and other things. But, it turns out that this wasn't completely true, and there is a great article over at GameDaily about how sometimes overzealous reporters looking for a scoop may not question some "facts".

I am not sure if his points are completely accurate, but I do think it is part of human nature to accept some things offered up by these companies as real hard facts. Furthermore, I think gamers are optimists with respect to what the future of thier preferred platforms will hold, but I also think that there is some amount of one-ups-man-ship (is that a word? Kinda like ManBearPig) in the industry where bloggers and game industry pundits attempt to get the dirt faster than the next guy.

Luckily, we are not in that number in that we don't try to do breaking news, but we can get drawn in on some of these topics. Ultimately, the answer is really in being a bit more cynical about the information that is given out and maybe having a bit more paitence to get statistics and capabilities before crying out about how great a certain product will be. Here at GamingSignal, we have been discussing the concept of a hype meter of sorts that could be used to track if a given title or system is truely great or just alot of marketing and fanboy fervor.

Well, very few things send my "hypometer" in to outer space but unfortunately DRM is one of those topics. You and Scott seem willing to accept the whole DRM thing but I'm going to fight the stuff that gets in my face and limits my use of the very expensive hardware I own (as in the HDCP Fiasco with my video card manufacturer) or the stuff I would like to own but disagree with their implementation (like the PS3.) Thats just me, I'm not afraid to take a side. If I'm wrong I'll admit it. I'm a big boy, I can take that. If you would like me to keep my opinions of those things on other sites, thats fine too. And I don't mean that in a "I'll take my toys elsewhere" kind of way. If you guys have a vision for this site that doesn't fit these types of discussions, thats cool.

Back on point. So are you saying that we need to wait for news to solidify more before we discuss it? If so then I think thats kind of lame in that news is only fun when it is fresh. If it turns out to be bunk or rushed articles that we are referring from, so be it. At least you took a side and put your heart in to it. Otherwise, this will get boring pretty fast don't you think?

Posted by tditto on Thursday June 01, 2006 at 9:24 AM

For the first point, I think your comments were on target from your point of view. They offered us a great opportunity to have a discussion about the topic of DRM (which is far from complete). My belief for GamingSignal was a location for us to discuss things like this and how they relate to gaming. As far as I know, it is this healthy discussion that really helps us to better communicate to the "powers that be" how to improve things so that all sides get what is needed. To say I am "willing to accept DRM" is probably an overstatement on my position.

All the posts have been fantastic and the loss of any commenter/content provider will make me sad and you dont want that darned it!!!

On to your second point -
I don't think we need to necessarily wait for news, but I think we need to be a bit more cynical about what is presented as the "feature set". Honestly, how hard is to ask a few tougher questions about the real capabilities of a given graphics engine and what is the actual cost to the consumer? That was what I was recommending, and yes there are times where news comes out so fast that you know it was hearsay from a convention from some low level flunky - is that a talking point - sure but make sure you flag it as a "rumor" and lets go with it from there. The problems arise when rumors are labelled as facts and then cats and dogs are living together...

Posted by Tim on Thursday June 01, 2006 at 9:54 AM

Trent wrote:
You and Scott seem willing to accept the whole DRM thing but I'm going to fight the stuff that gets in my face and limits my use of the very expensive hardware I own (as in the HDCP Fiasco with my video card manufacturer) or the stuff I would like to own but disagree with their implementation (like the PS3.)

First, I'm not accepting 'the whole DRM thing' as it is today, but I am saying that DRM is here and isn't going away. Raging against the machine isn't going to help in this case I fear. Instead, I'd like to put out my thoughts on why the current solutions don't work and what it needs to be like.

Second, the HDCP problem you mention is not a DRM problem. For those of you not familiar with this situation you can read about it here on FiringSquad. This problem is about the board manufacturers marketing claiming something the engineers either didn't implement. I suspect they just copied what nVidia told them (that the GPU supported HDCP) without fully understanding what it meant. If the engineers even studied it, I bet they looked at that chip+license fee and said - 'no way I'm adding 10 cents per board for this thing nobody will need until 2007.' Of course, they should have worked that back into the marketing and dropped any claim of HDCP support. I have no problems with the Longhorn claim because we all know that the board will work as a graphics card with Longhorn and what they were really trying to convey is support for DX10 without being allowed to state that yet. My box says 'Ready for Longhorn' which isn't the same to me as 'every feature in Longhorn will work flawlessly with this board.'

Third, it is extremely unfair to disagree with the implementation of DRM in the PS3 when you have no idea what it will or won't be! I predict there won't be any noticeable difference between the PS3 and the XBOX 360 DRM. But overall that's still just a prediciton - we should let the thing ship first .

Posted by Scott on Friday June 02, 2006 at 10:26 AM

Well now we are waxing semantics. I don't think its a very far leap of logic to tie my displeasure with the HDCP Fiasco to the DRM topic. Is it not a DRM mechanism that missing in these video cards that I'm complaining about? Is it also not a DRM mechanism (broadcast flag) that would downrez my playback of an HD signal if a DRM mechanism via HDCP is not successfully handshaked with the video card and the display?

More on point, do I have to spell everything out in rediculous detail to escape the minor leaps of logic that I am making to apply all my links/points to a DRM category of discussion?

I just feel like you are dismissing my points just because the links I provide do not coincide 100% with the exact topic.

If that is what we are aspiring to here on this site then I have no business posting, and I doubt seriously that any link we find on the web will conform to this desire either.

I dislike DRM in any capacity and I want to discuss it with my friends. Help me discuss it in this forum please so we can move on to discussion and spend less time worrying if the link applies to the discussion or not.

We all post links that only apply about 15% to the actuall discussion, why is it that mine are scrutinized?

I just want to understand so I can contribute in a way that eliminates the scrutiny.

Posted by tditto on Friday June 02, 2006 at 11:41 AM

So far all I see are me, you, and Tim talking and it's been a fun discussion - please don't feel singled out, you're just outspoken about this topic. Pete is outspoken on topics related to MMOs and Tim it outspoken on his own pet items.

As a point of discussion, linking the missing feature of a video card to the overall problems with DRM seems somewhat unrelated, except that certainly the feature itself is DRM-related. However you've convinced me that this has certainly hightened sensitivity to it. If the card was missing a claimed feature that wasn't related to DRM you probably wouldn't be as upset about it, I suspect.

But then we get to the other hot button that wasn't mentioned - the DRM features included in HDCP that causes content to potentially be downrezzed. Do we want to discuss that here? Not sure...

Posted by Scott on Friday June 02, 2006 at 3:11 PM